ID checks aboard ferries makes Avalon into Alcatraz for some Show FlyerTalk Evangelist Original Poster
Join Date: May 2001 Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold Posts: 31,788 ID checks aboard ferries makes Avalon into Alcatraz for some While I'm certain that this story will be cause for celebration in some quarters, to me it is yet another depressing erosion of our right to travel domestically without "showing our papers" to authorities. Quote: Wary of federal officials aboard ferries, many illegal immigrants refuse to leave Catalina, forgoing shopping trips and visits with relatives. By Daniel Hernandez, Times Staff Writer The bright orange postcard is easy to spot on display at souvenir shops that dot Avalon: "Help! I'm marooned on Catalina Island." Goofy keepsake for most visitors, but for Avalon resident Jorge Rodriguez, 28, an illegal immigrant and construction worker who's lived on the island since he was a teenager, the card's gag has an uncanny note of accuracy. "You can't go there anymore," Rodriguez said, gesturing north to the mainland. "Since they started checking los IDs, everyone's afraid." For generations, the Spanish-speaking locals have called the mainland "el otro lado," the other side, borrowing a phrase more commonly used to refer to the U.S.-Mexico border. But for some, the 22 miles of sea that separate Avalon from mainland Los Angeles really has become a border, one that many are wondering whether they'll ever risk crossing again. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...ck=2&cset=true Yep, this makes us all safer. What a pathetic response to a tragedy. Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Pointy End Posts: 3,565 Excuse me? You're saying that it's bad we're not giving illegal immigrants their "right" to travel domestically? May I remind you that illegal immigrants are called just that because they've done something illegal. They don't have the right to travel freely in the US, unlike other legal residents. This policy (just like air travel) still allows people to take the ferry if they have appropriate ID. You should carry this ID anyway in case you are stopped by the police, etc. I don't see the big problem here, it would appear that the program is working as intended. It is indeed a security risk to let illegals travel freely within the country. If you don't want the authorities to know who you are/what you're doing here, the best way to enter the country is illegally. Anything we can do to curb illegal immigration also serves to curb potential terrorist entry. Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: GSP (Greenville, SC) Programs: DL Gold Medallion; UA Premier Executive; WN sub-CP; AA sub-Gold Posts: 13,393 While I tend to agree with your point on illegal immigration, the problem is that it will spread to legal residents and citizens, and when we are all treated as criminals, guilty until proven innocent, we will no longer be free country despite Bush II or Bush III or whoever's claims to the contrary. It is the slippery slope. After all, illegal immigrants on the mainland can travel more freely than those stuck on Catalina Island. Why the "discrimination"? Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Pointy End Posts: 3,565 You feel like a criminal because you're asked for ID? Well, I guess that's the end of buying beer, using a credit card, flying, cashing a check, or any of the vast number of other things you use your ID for. The whole point to having one is to verify that you're supposed to be doing whatever it is you're trying to do. It's also there to protect you against identity theft. I do agree with you about illegals on the mainland. They do have it easier than those on Catalina. It's just a matter of fact that it's easier to secure an island than a nation. I personally would support a nationwide crackdown on illegal immigration (my personal beliefs as well as security reasons), but in today's climate that's considered too "politically incorrect" for anyone to do it. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the law that Arizona passed in the last election, but it is a huge step in the right direction.
Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: BOS and vicinity Programs: Former UA 1P Posts: 3,718 Quote: The Coast Guard's Sea Marshals program, which was launched after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, is randomly checking occupants of all boats entering local harbors, not just commercial ferries to and from Avalon, said Chief Warrant Officer Lance Jones, a Coast Guard spokesman. "We're not targeting anybody," Jones said. "We're doing spot checks on IDs. We're showing a presence." Passengers who can't produce valid documents are turned over to the U.S. Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Jones said. Huh? Most US citizens I know don't carry "valid documents" (i.e., proof of citizenship) all of the time. I happen to carry an INSPass, but even that is technically not valid as a passport/visa. So I'm not sure how this works unless racial/ethnic profiling, which is supposed to be non-PC, is used. Are they going to detain me if I take a boat to Catalina and don't carry my passport? Are the ID requirements and Coast Guard options different because Catalina is an island? Look, I'm all in favor of catching and deporting illegal immigrants. 5 years at hard labor in a US jail with labor profits to the govt. followed by deportation, with 10 years for a second offense is fine by me. Catch them at the border. Catch them when they try to get a job illegally, try to get illegal ID documents, or try to suck dry the USA social service system. Catch them when they've been arrested for or under reasonable suspicion for having committed another crime. But don't catch them by subjecting innocent citizens to internal border control checkpoints. Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: GSP (Greenville, SC) Programs: DL Gold Medallion; UA Premier Executive; WN sub-CP; AA sub-Gold Posts: 13,393 Quote: Originally Posted by J-M You feel like a criminal because you're asked for ID? Well, I guess that's the end of buying beer, using a credit card, flying, cashing a check, or any of the vast number of other things you use your ID for. The whole point to having one is to verify that you're supposed to be doing whatever it is you're trying to do. It's also there to protect you against identity theft. With the exception of flying, none of those examples is related to domestic travel. And regarding flying, just because one mode requires it does not require that all modes of travel require ID. Could you please explain what you mean by "It's also there to protect you against identity theft."? That makes no sense. Quote: I do agree with you about illegals on the mainland. They do have it easier than those on Catalina. It's just a matter of fact that it's easier to secure an island than a nation. I personally would support a nationwide crackdown on illegal immigration (my personal beliefs as well as security reasons), but in today's climate that's considered too "politically incorrect" for anyone to do it. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the law that Arizona passed in the last election, but it is a huge step in the right direction. Rather than rounding up the illegal immigrants at taxpayer expense, I think we would be better off terminating the free money train and letting people in who wish to be productive and work. If an immigrant wants to work and pay Social Security taxes, come on over. If you want welfare and free health care, go away. Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Pointy End Posts: 3,565 Quote: Originally Posted by studentff Huh? Most US citizens I know don't carry "valid documents" (i.e., proof of citizenship) all of the time. I happen to carry an INSPass, but even that is technically not valid as a passport/visa. So I'm not sure how this works unless racial/ethnic profiling, which is supposed to be non-PC, is used. Are they going to detain me if I take a boat to Catalina and don't carry my passport? As far as I'm aware the only ID you need to show for the ferry is a driver's license (or state ID card). It's no different from airport security. I haven't seen anything about requiring a passport for the ferry. I think the article was just referring to the illegals being concerned because they don't have valid ID (driver's license, ID card, etc). This is basically the same thing as what we use for aircraft. Checking for valid ID of people using public transportation that is vulnerable to terrorism. Last edited by J-M; Feb 24, 05 at 4:24 pm Reason: added quote Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Pointy End Posts: 3,565 Quote: Originally Posted by JS With the exception of flying, none of those examples is related to domestic travel. And regarding flying, just because one mode requires it does not require that all modes of travel require ID. Could you please explain what you mean by "It's also there to protect you against identity theft."? That makes no sense. Sure, I was just referring to things like using a credit card, or checking into a hotel. You are asked for ID to make sure that the person is really you (as opposed to someone stealing your credit card and going on a spending spree). That wasn't intended to be related to transportation, I think I didn't phrase it as well as I could have. Quote: Originally Posted by JS Rather than rounding up the illegal immigrants at taxpayer expense, I think we would be better off terminating the free money train and letting people in who wish to be productive and work. If an immigrant wants to work and pay Social Security taxes, come on over. If you want welfare and free health care, go away. We already do this. It's called, if you want to come in and be a productive US Citizen (or legal resident), then you go about the immigration process in a legal manner. You can apply for a work visa, student visa, etc as it may apply to you. While I agree with you about not wanting people taking advantage of welfare, I'm not buying that open borders would be the way to stop this. FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 11,242 Quote: Originally Posted by J-M This is basically the same thing as what we use for aircraft. Checking for valid ID of people using public transportation that is vulnerable to terrorism. Can you please explaint to us how checking IDs protects against acts of terrorism? You must have imbibed the kool-aid. FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000 Location: أمريكا Posts: 26,412 Quote: Originally Posted by Japhydog Can you please explaint to us how checking IDs protects against acts of terrorism? Duh, terrorists have ID cards that clearly identify them as terrorists FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000 Location: أمريكا Posts: 26,412 Quote: Originally Posted by J-M Excuse me? You're saying that it's bad we're not giving illegal immigrants their "right" to travel domestically? May I remind you that illegal immigrants are called just that because they've done something illegal. They don't have the right to travel freely in the US, unlike other legal residents. It's not just illegal immigrants who get caught in these dragnets, it's lawful citizens and immigrants. Another member recently posted about Mexican-American US citizens who are regularly subject to long detention, if not deportation (despite being US citizens), including children, when caught up in similar dragnets if they don't have "their papers" on them. Quote: Originally Posted by J-M This policy (just like air travel) still allows people to take the ferry if they have appropriate ID. You should carry this ID anyway in case you are stopped by the police, etc. Why should we have to show "our papers" to get around? Is this East Germany? Maybe we should be required to wear ID badges with RFID chips in them - this way the government can keep track of where we are, so that no one steps out of line. Would you ever reach a point where it would be too much? Having to show ID to cross state lines? County lines? Town lines? Just to walk down the street? We give up a little more freedom and a little more privacy every day. Eventually there won't be anything left to protect. Quote: Well, I guess that's the end of buying beer, using a credit card, flying, cashing a check, or any of the vast number of other things you use your ID for. You may or may not need ID to buy beer - but that's a private company's decision. You also don't need ID to use a credit card under most conditions (in fact, Visa/MC/AmEx prohibit merchants from requiring ID as a condition of sale). Cashing a check is a private company. Flying is another place where the government shouldn't be requiring us to show our papers. Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Pointy End Posts: 3,565 Quote: Originally Posted by Japhydog Can you please explaint to us how checking IDs protects against acts of terrorism? You must have imbibed the kool-aid. Simple... 1. Illegal immigration is the easiest way for terrorists to enter the country. 2. Checking ID's is an easy way to identify possible illegal immigrants. 3. Checking ID's can be used to locate potential terrorists. 4. If you locate potential terrorists before they commit terrorist acts, then you are preventing terrorism. Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Pointy End Posts: 3,565 Quote: Originally Posted by Doppy Why should we have to show "our papers" to get around? Is this East Germany? Maybe we should be required to wear ID badges with RFID chips in them - this way the government can keep track of where we are, so that no one steps out of line. Would you ever reach a point where it would be too much? Having to show ID to cross state lines? County lines? Town lines? Just to walk down the street? We give up a little more freedom and a little more privacy every day. Eventually there won't be anything left to protect. Oh please. How long have we been required to show ID to fly? It's not to much to ask you who you are before you board public mass transportation, especially when those forms of transportation are possible terrorist targets. Quote: Originally Posted by Doppy Flying is another place where the government shouldn't be requiring us to show our papers. If you honestly believe that, you aren't living in reality. You don't have to give your "papers". You're not being asked to have your birth certificate, passport, etc just to fly. The requirement is one piece of government issued photo ID. Sure, it's not convienient... sure I don't like it, but in this day in age it's necessary. If we followed your ideas, then no one would have the slightest clue who boarded a given aircraft. Not only would this open a giant hole to terrorists, it would cause endless other problems I doubt you've ever considered. What if someone wanted to flee from police. It would be much easier if ID wasn't required at the airport. What if the plane crashed? How could you verify who was actually on board? This goes on and on. ID is created for the government to identify you. The police can do a "stop and frisk" anytime they damn well please, and they can ask for ID. Why is it too much to ask for ID when boarding a plane? You really should have some on you anyway in the event something goes wrong while you're travelling.
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 11,242 Quote: Originally Posted by J-M Simple... 1. Illegal immigration is the easiest way for terrorists to enter the country. 2. Checking ID's is an easy way to identify possible illegal immigrants. 3. Checking ID's can be used to locate potential terrorists. 4. If you locate potential terrorists before they commit terrorist acts, then you are preventing terrorism. Your 'logic' is flawed. 1. Illegal immigration
may or may not be the easiest way to enter the country (think student visa, tourist visa). Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Pointy End Posts: 3,565 Quote: Originally Posted by Japhydog Your 'logic' is flawed. 1. Illegal immigration may or may not be the
easiest way to enter the country (think student visa, tourist visa). Ok, I'll have a go at it... 1. Sure, visas are probably easier to get than they should be. Yes, there are loopholes that need to be fixed. But illegally crossing the border is still less involved than getting a visa. I'm not talking about the physical difficulty of it, rather the fact that it's the only way for the government to have no idea you're in-country. 2. In theory, illegal immigrants shouldn't have ID. Before you come back with the fake ID argument, I totally agree that it does happen. Yes, screeners probably won't catch fake ID's, but the ferry checks (as well as various other checks) are conducted by people trained in spotting fakes. Will it be perfect? No. Will it be a deterrant? Hopefully. Let me add though, that I don't think our airport screeners are well trained. I would like to see them recieve more training on spotting fake ID. 3. You have to fly under the same name your ID has. If we didn't have ID checks at the airport, you could put anything you wanted to on your boarding pass (thus negating ANY way to check police lists for you). If you buy a ticket under a false name, and show up with a different ID, it's going to throw up a red flag. If given the option, terrorists wouldn't use their real names making them more difficult to locate, so checking ID can deter/prevent terrorism. Can you go to Catalina Island if you are undocumented?Catalina Island may seem like a world away, but you are actually not leaving California, so traveling documents are not needed for US citizens. However, it is recommended to have a government-issued photo identity for easy identification by officials.
Can I visit Catalina Island with DACA?1 attorney answer
Catalina Island is still part of the state of California. There should be no issue. You could actually even drive to Long Beach or San Pedro can get a ferry there during this nice weather we are having.
What do you need to get to Catalina Island?You can get to Catalina Island by passenger ferry boat from four mainland ports in southern California – San Pedro, Long Beach, Newport Beach or Dana Point – and the ride is only about an hour by boat or 15 minutes by helicopter.
What country owns Catalina Island?In 1846, shortly before the United States assumed control of California and its islands, the Mexican government granted ownership of the island to a private citizen. Changing hands a number of times during the late 1800s and early 1900s, the island has belonged to the Wrigley family since 1919.
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Can illegal immigrants go to catalina island
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